Suspension / DF Gurus chime in please.

pinkysbox · Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 35

My xB2 is lowered on DF210 and I don't know when it started but the driver's front has a "KINK" sound coming from it depending on the bumps on the roads. "KINK" is the only way I can explain it but I think there's some metal to metal rubbing when I'm hitting the bumps on the road. It almost sounds like it's getting louder and louder by the day & I've only hit 5700 miles on the bad boy.
Without taking it apart yet, is this a common problem and what might it be?
Thanks for input.

SupaGlove · Joined: 17 Dec 2005 Posts: 232

Check the top hat bolt under the dustcover on the top of the strut itself on both sides, even though mine were torqued it back off a tad giving it some play and made the exact same noise.

miketf1 · Posted: 7/26/08 9:49PM Post subject:

take off all four wheels and check you torque please!

evosky · Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 2065

SupaGlove wrote: Check the top hat bolt under the dustcover on the top of the strut itself on both sides, even though mine were torqued it back off a tad giving it some play and made the exact same noise.

i agree. i had the same issue with my htechs on my box. after settling, the shock won't be tightened down all the way like you had when it was installed. just tighten that nut a bit and it should be good.

BBN-Boys · Joined: 04 Jul 2008 Posts: 256

According to the front strut remove/install info from Scion:
As I recall..... the nut on the top of the strut (under the dust cover) is not supposed be to reused again. It calls out for a new nut to be installed. I would think that some BLUE Locktite would do the job OK also.

Good luck.

CIONIDE · Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 2669 Location: Napa, CA

BBN-Boys wrote: According to the front strut remove/install info from Scion:
As I recall..... the nut on the top of the strut (under the dust cover) is not supposed be to reused again. It calls out for a new nut to be installed. I would think that some BLUE Locktite would do the job OK also.
Don't scrimp on replacing 2 lock nuts that were never designed to be tightened down more than once just to save $5 when installing $200 springs. Not only is it a very unsafe thing to do, but a tube of Locktite probably costs more than the lock nuts.

SupaGlove · Joined: 17 Dec 2005 Posts: 232

Do you honestly think everyone that owns a scion and lowers it replaces that bolt with a brand new one? I highly doubt it, its just another way to skeez more money out of your pocket.

CIONIDE · Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 2669 Location: Napa, CA

You do what you want, but that nut is NOT DESIGNED to be backed off and then tightened down a second time. And give me a break about the price... it's 2 nuts that are $2.46 each. We're talking about suspension lock nuts, not some trivial nut that just holds a hose or wiring against a body panel.

To answer your question: No, I don't think everyone that owns a scion and lowers it replaces those nuts (not bolts) with brand new ones. I do think it's ignorant not to replace the lock nuts with new ones. Notice I did not use the word stupid, because I believe the majority of people who don't replace these nuts truly don't understand the importance of their design and what they do.

SupaGlove · Joined: 17 Dec 2005 Posts: 232

Please, since your going to point out my ignorance, enlighten me on how EXACTLY these nuts "(not bolts)" are designed not to be reused.

CIONIDE · Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 2669 Location: Napa, CA

SupaGlove wrote: Please, since your going to point out my ignorance, enlighten me on how EXACTLY these nuts "(not bolts)" are designed not to be reused.
I wasn't saying that you personally were ignorant, but I'm glad you asked, because I'm sure there are many others who don't understand and assume it's OK to reuse these lock nuts. This should clear it up for everybody.

Lock nuts differ from standard nuts in that they have pitted grooves built into them that are designed to interlock with protruding pieces in locking surfaces to create a more secure fastening hold and prevent fastener slippage.

The lock nut has a steel exterior with a hard formed nylon interior. When the nut is threaded onto the strut bolt, the nylon is compressed and binds onto the threads of the strut bolt. The nylon literally binds itself onto the microscopic imperfections of the bolt. This keeps it locked on throughout the excessive stress and vibration that the suspension transmits to the top of the strut. It is also resistant to rust and corrosion, which could cause a catastrophic failure of the front strut, and potentially result in an accident.

When this lock nut is removed, small amounts of the nylon that was bound to the steel strut bolt is shredded away. This means that if this nut is ever reused, it will not have the same amount of nylon thickness and threads to properly bind to the strut bolt, as it was designed to. Using a new lock nut each time ensures that the maximum strength is achieved for the proper fastening of the lock nut to the strut bolt.

This is why Toyota is so expressive in their instructions that they not only specify the lock nuts by part #, they also put the word "new" in bold print; "Install new shock absorber nut." I invite you to take a look at page 5 of their spring installation instructions: http://www.trdsparks.com/install/PTR07-52080inst.pdf

I hope this clears it up for everybody, and impresses upon you how important it is NOT to reuse these little $2.46 nuts.

evosky · Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 2065

^^^ good point. i guess the moral of the story is: if you want to play by the book, get new nuts. for most of us out there (from my experience), reusing the nuts is no biggie. end of story.

CIONIDE · Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 2669 Location: Napa, CA

Actually the moral of the story is: if you want to be safe and do the job right, get a new pair of nuts. :lol:

Like I said earlier... Do what you want.

At least now people will understand that there is a safety and engineering purpose for the specification of using new locking nuts; so SupaGlove, thanks for asking.

xseveredveganx · Posted: 7/27/08 5:06PM Post subject:

*raises hand* I reused my nuts. I'm ignorant. No lie. :lol: I installed everything at around 9pm. Dealer was closed and I didn't want to wait until morning. Meh. It works. But I'm sure I'd be better off if I had purchased new nuts. Chances are my dealers don't have any... *rolls eyes*

Anyway, I had a weird noise after I installed everything. Granted, I don't have DF's, but I HAVE installed DF's. I'd recommend checking the endlinks that bolt on to the strut from the sway bar. That's where mine was making a noise.

CIONIDE · Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 2669 Location: Napa, CA

xseveredveganx wrote: I installed everything at around 9pm. Dealer was closed and I didn't want to wait until morning.
I definitely understand the desire to get new parts on NOW, and not wait. I'm sure the old nuts and locktite work fine for most people, I just prefer to rely on the inherent strength of new nuts instead of relying on a little bit of locktite.

BTW, most dealerships keep these nuts in stock all the time, because they use them when people buy the TRD springs.

And thanks for being big enough to admit you're ignorant; let me know anytime I can be of help with that. :P

scion_grl108 · Joined: 22 Jul 2008 Posts: 1

do you guys have pictures for better description? are you guys talking about the top part of it or bottom? please advise. thanks.

CIONIDE · Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 2669 Location: Napa, CA

scion_grl108 wrote: do you guys have pictures for better description? are you guys talking about the top part of it or bottom? please advise. thanks.
If you're asking about the locking nuts, there are pictures in the instructions that I posted a link to about 6 posts above.

lvbitwiz · Posted: 7/27/08 5:41PM Post subject:

xseveredveganx wrote: But I'm sure I'd be better off if I had purchased new nuts. Chances are my dealers don't have any... *rolls eyes*

.

Man, you almost make things too easy brau :rofl:

CIONIDE · Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Posts: 2669 Location: Napa, CA

lvbitwiz wrote: xseveredveganx wrote: But I'm sure I'd be better off if I had purchased new nuts. Chances are my dealers don't have any... *rolls eyes*.
Man, you almost make things too easy brau :rofl:
Good eye bitwiz, I can't believe I completely missed that one. :doh:

pinkysbox · Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 35

Probably a stupid way of doing it but I yanked out the wiper blade motor and shafts above the struts today and tried to impact the strut nut from the top side. It didn't budge at all or very little so to speak. Took it around the neighborhood and the noise went away until about half way through the drive and the noise returned.

xseveredveganx wrote: *raises hand* I reused my nuts. I'm ignorant. No lie. :lol: I installed everything at around 9pm. Dealer was closed and I didn't want to wait until morning. Meh. It works. But I'm sure I'd be better off if I had purchased new nuts. Chances are my dealers don't have any... *rolls eyes*

Anyway, I had a weird noise after I installed everything. Granted, I don't have DF's, but I HAVE installed DF's. I'd recommend checking the endlinks that bolt on to the strut from the sway bar. That's where mine was making a noise.

Thanks sir I'll have to check the end links tomorrow morning then since I took it off.

xseveredveganx · Posted: 7/27/08 11:19PM Post subject:

lvbitwiz wrote: xseveredveganx wrote: But I'm sure I'd be better off if I had purchased new nuts. Chances are my dealers don't have any... *rolls eyes*

.

Man, you almost make things too easy brau :rofl:

Hey, who doesn't like crisp, clean, new nuts? :rofl: